A peer-to-peer discussion with Anuj Mehrotra, Dean of the Scheller College of Business at Georgia Tech University.
🎙️What’s the future of business education? In Episode 52 of the Deans Counsel Podcast panelists Ken Kring and David Ikenberry explore the state of business education with the three-time dean and thought leader.
Perfectly positioned to deliver a birds eye view of the evolving educational landscape, Mehrotra delivers a master-class for leaders in business education that covers:
Cross-campus collaboration for societal impact
The evolving role of business school leadership
The intersection of generative AI and business
Scheller College of Business, under Dean Mehrotra's leadership, is cultivating a hub for connectivity through a strategic, modified "extension" model, promoting interdisciplinary innovation and impact. Dean Mehrotra underscores the importance of business schools proactively engaging in collaborative partnerships with campus and business stakeholders.
“In that sense, to improve their lives and improve their business opportunities…is a starting point for that, but I tend to think of it as larger than that, in terms of what we can do.” Said Mehrotra
Ready to take your leadership and institution into the future? Then Episode 52 is a must-listen for current and future leaders in business education. #highereducation #leadership #podcast #DeansCounsel
Photos courtesy of Scheller College of Business
Transcript:
Welcome to Deans Counsel, a podcast aimed at supporting university leaders holding one of the more critical jobs on a university campus. Your panelists, Ken Kring, Jim Ellis and Dave Ikenberry, engage in conversation with highly accomplished deans and other academic leaders regarding the ever complex array of challenges that Deans face in one of the loneliest and most unique jobs in the academy. We all know that deaning can be a hard business and our guest today, Anuj marotra surely knows that he's now serving in his third deanship. Anuj graduated with his PhD in operations research at Georgia Tech, and is today a scholar focusing on solving large scale computer optimization problems. After graduating Georgia Tech in 1993 he joined the faculty at the University of Miami in Florida, and stayed there for the next 25 years, gradually rising through the ranks. In 2002 he took on his first administrative appointment as chair of the management science department. Over the next 14 years, he took on successfully, higher leadership roles at the Herbert school, eventually serving as its interim Dean from 2016 to 2017 in 2018 Anuj became dean at George Washington University School of Business, a role he held for five years. January of this year, 2024 Anuj took on his third deanship, returning back to his roots at his alma mater, Georgia Tech, after completing nearly 12 months on the job, Manou shares with us the insights that only a veteran of three different institutions can provide in this episode, we hear from Manoj about some of the key issues that as Deans we all face when thinking about the strategic positioning of our college, we learn his views on the current state of affairs in business education, what he views as essential thesis for what business schools of the future should be focused on, and how AI can and should impact our programs. And among other things, Anu shares with us tools and techniques he has used to tackle the difficult challenge we all face as deans in trying to succinctly and intuitively convey to all constituents the strategic direction of our schools as this semester is winding down and the New Year is soon upon us. Jim Ken and myself hope that this has been a successful fall term for you and let you return fresh to your respective roles in the new year as part of that wish, we hope you enjoy hearing from Anuj Mehrotra in today's episode.
Ken 2:53
We are here today with Anuj Mehrotra, the dean at the Scheller College of Business at Georgia Tech, Anuj, it's great to be with you here today. You're someone we have looked forward to this conversation. Your deep experience deaning now for two institutions and having spent actually time as dean at both Miami and an interim role, and then again at George Washington University, brings you to this conversation with a lot of experience. So welcome. We're delighted to have you here.
Anuj Mehrotra 3:36
Thank you very much, Ken. I'm looking forward to our conversation. I appreciate the opportunity to sit down with you and talk to you today.
Ken 3:43
I guess we open just with a sort of a general conversation reflecting the fact that you've had the kind of experience that you've had to hear your general thinking about the current state, and frankly, you know, the possible future of business education, talk about some of the challenges, some of the opportunities for leadership in the business school world today and coming down the pike?
Anuj Mehrotra 4:09
Great. So thank you for that question. I think you know, as we, as we all know, the business education has been evolving over a period of time, and at least in the last couple of decades, it has gone from being pretty much MBA, full time MBA focused, to very many series of changes in business education, starting with executive MBA, different model modes of Executive MBA. But the way I look at it is that this whole market demands have segmented. The audiences are different. The age and experience that come to various different programs are different. The programs themselves at this point are not just MBA programs, but also other graduate programs, master's degrees, undergraduate degrees, hybrid programs, and so on and so forth. And there is competition for business schools from not just around the US, but at this point, from from from various degrees. And globally, so a lot of this poses certain, certain sense of challenges, as well as certain sense of opportunities for business schools. If I look back at things, the one thing that has happened over a period of time is that for a very long period of time, business schools, although we teach leadership, have actually been followers. We have been following the same programs that one school follows, and we try to better that in just a small way, and things of that kind, incremental changes to the programs. If one school launches a particular master's degree, we launch it, and so on and so forth. So it has been where we have been, somewhat of followers versus leaders in business education. And what I think, in terms of leadership in the business school world that you refer to, I think the school that will lead is going to be the school that's going to break that and part of it, I feel at this point, if I were to go and predict the future, at least, we are venting on this here in Atlanta at Georgia Tech right now is really the business of schools need to become hubs for connectivity. Hubs for connectivity in terms of, you know, for both the industry, the academic and the entrepreneurial space. And I think that is one of the reasons why I was very attracted to come to a city like Atlanta, which, as you know, has been booming with innovation and whatnot. And I when I mean, with that hub for connectivity is really having a think tank type of ability, along with really conducting applied research with both the industry as well as on topics of interest, in general, to society, and then maybe even thinking in terms of providing extension services. So the hub really consists of the think tank, the applied research, the extension services, all in one. But it does become something where you end up becoming, becoming one of the connectors, so to speak, for academic and industry and entrepreneurial spaces all in one. And that, I think is, is what is going to be the big opportunity for schools and colleges of business in the future. The other one, I do think that that as often, you know, when I was at George Washington University, we were talking to other deans across George Mason, Mary Lynn, Georgetown, and others and and one of the things that that, and then the same thing is happening here. When I Georgia Tech, we have been in conversations with Emory et cetera, is this idea of we always compete, but the societal problems and societal issues are bigger, and I think there are going to be opportunities for schools like us to also identify areas in which we will actually collaborate. And I think you will, I think the future of business leadership will be on those collaborations across schools, on matters that really are impactful in society. And I think the key to making the world a better place, some way or the other, where we find common ground is going to be important. And I think that's another opportunity that will be that would be an opportunity for leadership in the business school World
Ken 8:13
Without giving away trade secrets. You know, we know that Georgia Tech is a highly interdisciplinary institution, and it sounds like there's a lot of opportunity within the you know, within the region, if you will, talk with us some about, sort of categorically, what some of those opportunities might look like, and how interdisciplinary, cross disciplinary work can and does take place.
Anuj Mehrotra 8:38
So you're absolutely right. I think Georgia Tech is certainly a very interdisciplinary institution, and it has been it has also happens to be, in a in some sense, the right institution at the right place, at the right time, because almost everything, I would like to actually cite our new College of Computing Dean, who thinks of everything as x plus computing, so to speak. So it is not the case that if you take any particular discipline x, where things are happening in terms of innovation is in the technology side of that x, I actually would like to say that it is really x plus business and technology. So if you start thinking about x plus business and technology, whether it's the health industry, whether it's manufacturing, whether it is what you have, the x plus business and technology is where things are going to be happening, mostly in terms of innovation. And I think that is part and parcel of meaning that we need to be interdisciplinary. We need to understand the x as much as we want to understand the business and the technology. And from that perspective, I think there's a lot of collaboration across different colleges at Georgia Tech and the Georgia Tech Research Institute, for that matter, where we are in conversations and designing appropriate opportunities. Opportunities for students, appropriate opportunities for students, for faculty, to collaborate with industry. So it's like a perfect mix of creating minors majors programs, as well as thinking about how to include the booming industry in Atlanta, both from the corporate side as well as the entrepreneurial side and develop programs which which are going to be impactful for the region.
Dave 10:26
Anush, again, welcome today.
Anuj Mehrotra 10:29
Thank you. Dave.
Dave 10:30
A few moments ago, you kind of painted this picture of connectivity hub, and you you made reference to the phrase extension and extension services. So when I hear, and I'm not an expert in extension, but when I hear extension, I kind of think of agriculture and the role of bringing innovation into the field, so to speak. Are you using that phrase in the same context? And then, and then, if you could dig a little deeper, how that's a non traditional application for, as we think of say, about a faculty contribution. So how are you how are we incentivizing and engaging our faculty? How Are we recognizing contributions? How's that flow into the whole production function, so to speak.
Anuj Mehrotra 11:23
So I think that's a very good question, Dave. And I think these are things that are still things that we have to work through, but the idea of extension services, the way I'm using it, are really educational opportunities that not only provide information, skills and technologies and transfer of technologies, for that matter, to really help non traditional students, in that sense, to improve their lives and improve their business opportunities. And certainly, what example you gave is a starting point for that, but I tend to think of it as larger than that, in terms of what we can do. So, for example, you know there are, there are in the strategic plan for Georgia Tech, the Georgia Tech atrium, which really is strategic initiative to advance the goals of connecting globally and expanding access. There are a lot of ideas about creating globally, having some smaller presences to be in a position to help the different communities, and having this kind of applied research, and being at the cutting edge of it, and then being in a position to be able to apply them and help the communities and non traditional students, to be in a position to catch up, is what I mean by this extension services, so a hub of opportunity where we are not only thinking about using the Think Tank to think about what the future is going to look like, or immediate future is going to be look like, but shaping it through our research, through our collaborations with industry, and then being a player in actually helping implement some of that research in various parts of the community. So I think that's what I mean by that. Now, of course, I think, I think you have to look at a faculty's contribution very holistically, and for them to be in a position to participate in something like this, and and a lot of it is dependent on where the funding for centers which would do something like this is coming from, and what kind of messaging we would like to be in a position to champion in terms of what I what, what sheller would do, or what a college would do. This is something that is still we are, we are sorting through. This is what I think will be the difference maker in the future. This is not something which is yet differentiating colleges across. That's why I meant this is an opportunity and I think we'll have to figure this out in order to be in a position to say that the faculty are appropriately incentivized to do this. And we have to also remember, Dave that there are different different types of faculty with different interests. And I think business schools tend to use their different faculty very effectively. There are faculty who are primarily interested in research and scholarly research. There are faculty who are also interested in working with industry. There are faculty who are interested in applied research. And I think you will also find faculty who would be interested in actually being in a position to implement some of this as as things go along, because that's another area where they are doing consulting. They are doing other things. But this gives an opportunity from a from an from from from position of strength to to advance the school's reputation.
Ken 14:33
So Anuj, in returning to Georgia Tech, your alma mater, as an experienced Dean, you perhaps have some credibility that you import both as a dean, but also having been educated at Georgia Tech, nevertheless, it is probably using that credibility to begin to plot and support whatever. Change you know, you envision, surely takes some finesse. We'd love to hear sort of how you've how you've used what you know, how you're using what you know, and how you're making yourself as effective as possible as a you know, as a new leader in an institution.
Anuj Mehrotra 15:21
Well, thanks for that question, Ken. I'm not sure that I have a system in place to be able to do that, but I can share how I have approached each of the positions, whether when I went from Miami to to GW, or from GW, I came to Georgia Tech. And I think the key, one of the key things that helped me, you know, first of all, communicate with with everybody, including and and as we were, as we all know that as a dean, you really do have many stakeholders that you have to communicate with, and oftentimes that communication may not be consistent across different stakeholders if you're not carefully thinking through it. So one of the things that I really what helped me was to find that way of being consistent in messaging and consistent in listening from various different stakeholders. So what I coined a term, and this is the only way I can remember, because I don't like to use notes or things of that kind that I'm talking to, let's say an alumni group, but you have to kind of remember and put things into perspective and be consistent. And I felt so at GW, we used the word spirit, s, p, i r, I T, and we said, Okay, what does s, p, i r, I T, mean to different stakeholders. And we did those experiments. And you know, every time we did that, it came out. S was about student interest first. P was about trying to make sure that we are preparing students for placement. I was about international R was about research. I was again about innovation and and inclusion and, and finally, T was about doing it together, that it was all stakeholders who wanted to participate. And if you think about whatever we do in terms of advancing the school's strategy or the strategic initiatives, they kind of fit very well into these SPR it. Now there may be some others, but it helps them make sure that you not only recall what the community is wanting you to hear and wanting you to do, you're able to repeat it, and you are able to be consistent across different constituents. When I came here at Georgia Tech, we tried to do the same kind of things, but we followed a different path. And I was, I was here appointed six months before I actually joined. So I had a head start in terms being able to talk to various stakeholders. So I had some sense of the aspiration, some sense even before, even when I was interviewing, I was really finding out what Georgia Tech's aspirations were, where it wanted to go. What were potential gaps they were considering? Where were the strengths of Georgia Tech? And, you know, we put up a website when I came here, and it was a dynamic website for people to be able to contribute, prioritize different ideas, debate different ideas and and have various different retreats and things of that, trying to talk about it. But we settled on the word bricks, b, r, I, C, K, s, and we kind of joked about it that we are we are made up. Our institutions made our buildings are made out of bricks. And the B here was really about the interdisciplinary part that you have been stressing, that we wanted to make sure that we are leveraging the bridges across different colleges, so whether it is minors in sports and entertainment, or minor in entrepreneurship that we are trying to introduce, or a minor in FinTech that we introduced when we started doing things, or another major in real estate that we are working with College of Design. So across all of those, we wanted to make sure that there were already many, many bridges built in programs like technology and management run through Scheller College of Business, or, you know, a QCF program, which is a joint Program in Quantitative Finance between, you know, engineering computing and Scheller College of Business. So they were already building blocks on which to build more. And I think we wanted to make sure that we are leveraging and that was the B, the R was really about student readiness. I You, I thought you might say, you may think about it as research, but R was really about trying to capture, how are we preparing students? Because there was a pride at Georgia Tech of really how the student outcomes being excellent, and they are being reflected in some of the recent rankings, where students are getting placed well prepared, well. So I think the we wanted to up that anti even more and say, let's make sure in different verticals, whether it is consulting or finance and technology or innovation or analytics, we are preparing, we create centers for student readiness programs outside of the classroom. So that's kind of where we landed on that the Eve I was really trying to capture everything about research and research and insights of faculty and what we would like the faculty to be contributing towards. And the C again, really became, you know, this was something that I felt very important about. And I'm very, very happy that the entire community. Came back and shared that feeling and said, This is important for us as well. We want to be the most connected business school in the world. And so we started a series called Tech Talks Business, where we are interviewing CEOs of various companies and what not to be in a position to connect with those different environments. Similarly, with entrepreneurs we I had, I was participating in a very similar kind of thing at George Washington University on a series called George talks business, where we had started it. But we are trying to do this even even more so here with that connection part conferences of which, which include, you know, industry leaders, in addition to academic leaders in areas of importance for us, like artificial intelligence, for example, those kind of things are all part and parcel of that. The C, the connection, the K, is a real tricky one, because the K is silent. It's about shell or next, where, where are we going to be going next with it? But we are Georgia Tech, so we are a little bit nerdy, so we can have a case silent in that next. And you know, it's really about what the programming will look like for the future. Where are we looking at as how can we be leading in business education? And you know, how can we not just be following the other institutions? And that's all about the initiatives around that to make sure that we are going to be leading edge. And finally, the s, which is really about sheller strong. And that's about the infrastructure. It's really about building, you know, making sure that our organizational, financial, technological infrastructure is as strong as possible. And then it is blessed to have a new building coming right across, and I'm staring at it. I think we are already on the 12th four in the shelf space coming up with a new shelter tower. So those kind of things is was helpful for me to just listen in and then be in a position to repeat it and be consistent and then act on it to gain credibility. The other things are generally, you know, the same, you know. I mean, you have to enjoy people. You have to be in a position to have to remember that, if you ask people the right things, they will tell you they want to participate and provide opportunities for people to participate. So but most important, I think people like a dean who is the credibility comes with being communicating clearly, consistently and and constantly, and then demonstrating that you have two ears and one mouth so that you can hear twice as much. And I think that has been the important part
Dave 22:28
Anuj, you're, as we mentioned earlier, you're in your third appointment. Now, each institution is unique, of course, but I was wondering if you could share a little bit about your leadership style and and the culture you're trying to shape. Are you doing things along that dimension? Are you doing things differently today than you would have done in your previous assignments in terms of how you're leading or shaping, or is there, is there just one a news and and it's, it's steady as she goes.
Anuj Mehrotra 23:07
Wow, Dave, I am 100% sure that we are all learning every day. Yeah. So there is certainly, you know, for every experience with every interaction, I hope I'm learning, and I'm Hope I'm becoming a little better, a little more thoughtful, a little more engaged, a little better at communicating and hearing better. So I do think that you know auto, almost automatically, part of the part of the experience of any position is that you learn to listen better. You learn to do and respond in ways. So So certainly, you know, at times when, when, when you're the first time something happens, you are still, you know, it's a very different experience than the second time something happens. So I do think that I'm learning, and it's a different Anuj, every time, almost every day. From that perspective, I hope I'm learning every day. But, you know, yeah, the each place is different, and I think it is what, what, what is always been, however important for me. And these are lessons that I think from a variety of my if you want to call them mentors or seniors, department chairs in the previous life, or deans and presidents or provost. And I think one of the things I have always felt is important that almost any job or any leadership position that you are in the center of everything is always people. It's institutions are made of people. So I think you have to be constantly thinking about what that institution is. And I think it is not complicated. If you talk to five different individuals from any one institution, if it's random sample enough, you actually learn something about the institution. And I think from for every move that I have made, I have followed, I've tried to follow that advice, to try and not talk to five, but more than five people, to get a grasp of what the aspiration. For that institution are what is on the mindset of students, of board, members of faculty, and I think, I hope, I think I felt like when I went to George Washington University, where I was told that my honeymoon period as a dean would last for three months, if that. And I felt after five and a half years, I was still in the honeymoon period, and I think part of it is to because maybe I have a thick skin I don't know, or perhaps because I actually did think I enjoyed knowing the people, and I enjoyed knowing their aspirations, and being, in a small way, being able to help realize some of those aspirations, and they may have been a little different than what may be the aspirations at sheller, for example. But I'm hoping to do the same thing here to learn more. And at least from what I can see right now, there are certain things which are the same in both places and certain things which may be actually different in aspirations. As an example, I think both institutions, or Miami, for that matter, the same institution. I think everybody likes the idea of keeping student at the center of every decision in terms of what, what we want to do. And I think part of it where, where, where we would like, is really that culture of collaboration wherever I would like, if you want to call it, what is the anujism there? The enujan may be that I love to collaborate. I like people. I like to work with people. I like interdisciplinary work. That drives me. I think it's more applied, it's more more practical, and it's helpful for our students. And I think that for the purpose of collaboration, you know, I actually truly believe that the whole is bigger than the sum, and you have to believe it if you want to collaborate, if you want to reach out. And there are multiple examples, even at George Washington University, I remember working with John lack, who was the Dean of Engineering, and we wanted both our students to be able to take each other certificate classes, and oftentimes small things like budget models might come into the picture as to who will what we should be doing right in some certain in certain budget models, and we both agree if it's right for the student, let's not worry about the budget. So I think the the one common thing across universities that have found is that faculty in general and administration in general are committed to the idea of what is right for the student, but there are differences in aspirations beyond that sometimes, and it takes some time to understand those through conversations.
Ken 27:29
So Anuj, we'd like to change directions a little bit. I think we our sense is we would be remiss with your extraordinary research background and Georgia Tech's name, technology, we want to ask you about, you know, any sort of additional thoughts, and frankly, you know, crystal ball that might exist as it relates to the impact and influence of technology and generative AI on both the delivery of education, the design and delivery of education, and sort of what your thoughts are. And, you know, to my earlier comment, you know, tell us what you can that you see out there in the future.
Anuj Mehrotra 28:18
Well, thank you, Ken for that question. So, so what I see in the future? I actually asked this question to every business leader that I talked to, also and and I'm trying to find out the answers through some lenses of some of the leaders in this technology field as well. And I will tell you this one of the things that I hear from CEOs, let's say, for example, when I ask them about AI, first of all, AI is being used technology is being used in various forms, whether it is AI or whether it was something else a couple of years ago, etc, for a while, in both academia and in industry, and now I understand the generative AI is the new thing, so to speak, but, but I have found that the interest in the business community and the academic side in terms of utilizing the latest technology is, in some sense, very similar. Everybody wants to be able to utilize it in ways to shape the business environment, to be in a position to predict how it will be and are, are the biggest challenge that we have as educators is to imagine what business needs will be tomorrow, and in the sense that is challenging, because some of those business needs will evolve with the technology itself, and the technology itself might change the business needs, right? So it's going to be, it's a fun thing, but what CEOs are not interested in is about, you know, how AI is impacting our assessments in the classroom, whether or not students should be allowed to use generative AI. They take that for granted. This is something that everybody will have access to. The question is, are we in a position? Use this technology and use it in a way to help students learn how to learn. Because I think that is the big mantra for tomorrow. It used to be that we were looking for creative thinking and and then, and then platform skills or presentation skills or soft skills, as sometimes that people call them. But those are, like there in institutions like Georgia Tech, when I'm you know, when a student is coming in, they are going to have those problem solving skills and creative thinking skills. What is very important is that the business environment is changing very, very fast, and the CEOs are interested in create, looking at talent which is going to be in a position to learn how to learn. So if you are asking me, I think the key part is really to double up on experiential education, double up on global education, double up on entrepreneurial education, because I think that's the only way, at least at this point, we know on how to create that environment of learning, how to learn, and certainly using all the latest tools. So for example, right now, we are trying XR technology, AR technology, VR technology, in our classrooms, to think, is this the future? Is this where people will be in a position to be able to utilize versus reading, for example, a cases study. Can we be doing this through a headset and goggles for people to be able to imagine what a warehouse looks like and how to go through that tour. So we are trying out different things to be in a position to be ready for what we think will be the future, hopefully. And there are so many different things to think about. So it's not very clear to me exactly what it will be, but what I do know, what it will be will require learning how to learn, and I think that's the key part from an educational sense
Dave 31:45
Anuj, what a what a wonderful conversation. Thank you for sharing those, those ideas, and kind of peering around the corner into the future that's you've given us a lot to think about. Thank you.
Anuj Mehrotra 31:58
Oh, my pleasure. Dave, I enjoyed talking to you and Ken and thank you for the opportunity.
Dave 32:04
Thank you.
Ken 32:05
You packed a lot into this conversation. Really terrific, really, really great.
So Dave, that was a conversation that flew by. What were your what were your thoughts and what takeaways?
Dave 32:25
You know, it was a it was a pleasure to to hear from a veteran, somebody who's been at not one, not two, but now is at their third institution, and, you know, at the helm of the ship. And I really liked hearing his reflection on how business has changed over time. But I also really appreciated his comments, you know, to the effect of, you know, peering into the future so to so to speak. You know, this idea of creating connectivity hubs is a really interesting thought, and it'll be interesting. I think it'll be interesting to see whether we expand our impact as institutions a little bit even further than we have in the past with respect to external impact and his phrase, extension services. But I found that I found our conversation quite enjoyable.
Ken 33:22
Yeah, he really, I mean, he really stepped into a very vibrant potential community that I think he is very much the right person for that job at this moment. And you could tell it, his zeal for the job and his recognition of the the technical human assets was really very respectful, but also, you know, sort of ready, ready to do, ready to do with impressive,
Dave 33:56
Yep,
Ken 33:57
great. I hope that others get the takeaway that we did because we sure enjoyed it.
Dave 34:01
Thank you for listening to this episode of Deans Councsel. This show is supported in part by Korn Ferry leaders in executive search. Dean's Council was produced in Boulder, Colorado by Joel Davis of analog digital arts for a catalog of previous shows, please visit our website@deanscouncil.com if you have any feedback for us, please let us know by sending an email to feedback@deanscouncil.com and finally, please hit follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast player so that you can automatically receive our latest show. Turn